August 6, 2007 | 31 Comments »
Topics: ChristChristianityDawahInterfaithJesus (Isa)Non-Believers
Sheikh Ahmed Deedat, talk to the point of the debate, but the Reverend divited the exact point of debate.
May Allah reward Sh. Deedat for his work for this Deen.
The professor tries to answer Deedats arguements(that ‘Isaa did not died), and then he cowardly says that Deedat diviates from the topic, but the thruth is that he just was not able to come with any answer. Even his Phd. could not avail him.
Christians are hyprocrites!!
I have not watched Part 2 or 3 but I have watched part one. There were witnesses to the actual death of Jesus. Mary his mother (which your Koran acknowledges) was there the entire time as well as the Apostle John who wrote the New testament book of John. The Bibles acknowledges this in John 19:25-27. The Apostle John (who watched Jesus die) was in the upper room when Jesus appeared to them after His Resurrection. They were frightened at first because both John & Mary as well as several other female followers knew they had seen Jesus did & get put in the tomb. When he told them look at my hands and feet he was referring to the wounds in them made by the nails. There must have not been any Catholics present at your talk because we believe that our flesh & blood bodies will be physically NOT spiritually resurrected as was Christ’s. One doesn’t get resurrected as a spirt.
In Luke 20:27-40 Jesus says: “The children of this age marry and remarry; but those who are worthy to attain to the coming age and to the resurrection of the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. They can no longer die, for they are like angles; and they are the ones who will rise.” When Jesus says “they are like angles” he means in that there is no need for sex and there for no need for marriage because there is no new life being created.
As for the sign of Jonah let me quote: Chapter 2 lines 1 thru 8 But the Lord sent a large fish, that swallowed Jonah; and he remained in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. From the belly of the fish Jonah said this prayer to the Lord, his God:
Psalm of Thanksgiving
Out of my distress I called to the Lord, and he answered me;
From the midst of the nether world I cried for help, and you heard my voice. For you cast me into the deep, into the heart of the sea, and the flood enveloped me; All your breakers and your billows passed over me. Then I said, “I am banished from your sight! yet would I again look upon your holy temple.” The waters swirled about me, threatening my life; the abyss enveloped me; seaweed clung about my head. Down I went to the roots of the mountain; the bars of the nether world were closing behind me forever, But you brought my life from the pit, O Lord, my God. When my soul fainted within me, I remembered the Lord; My prayer reached you in your holy temple.”
I do not see anywhere that it specifically says that Jonah remained alive inside the fish. Let’s say we interpret this literally (we Catholics do not believe the Bible is meant to be read literally) can any man stay alive inside a whale? Is there oxygen? No, so how can you say that Jonah remained alive inside the fish? It doesn’t matter wether Jonah was alive or dead. What matters is that Jonah was spared by God who of course can do all things.
Now let me ask you a question. Can God do any and everything? Of course if God wills it He can do anything. Muslims believe that. So if God can do all things why do you can that He can not be begotten? Why do you say that he can not have a Son? Why do you say that God can not be human too if he should so desire?
Maybe you can help me understand, but one of the many things I find troubling about Christianity is the belief that Jesus was not only the son of God, but also god. That said, how can you believe that if Jesus was god, he died on the cross? How can god die, and not only that, but by his lowly creations? You are really doing Jesus and God a HUGE disservice by implying that God can be defeated by his own creations! It is extremely insulting and blasphemous. Personally, I would not want a God who can be easily destroyed by his own people. How can Jesus give me salvage if he couldn’t even save himself! But of course I believe that the power of God is all encompassing and all powerful and that God cannot be defeated by his creations, so I choose to believe the Islamic account of Jesus’ life.
I have not watched Part 2 or 3 but I have watched part one. There were witnesses to the actual death of Jesus. Mary his mother (which your Koran acknowledges) was there the entire time as well as the Apostle John who wrote the New testament book of John. The Bibles acknowledges this in John 19:25-27. The Apostle John (who watched Jesus die) was in the upper room when Jesus appeared to them after His Resurrection. They were frightened at first because both John & Mary as well as several other female followers knew they had seen Jesus die & get put in the tomb. When he told them look at my hands and feet he was referring to the wounds in them made by the nails. There must have not been any Catholics present at your talk because we believe that our flesh & blood bodies will be physically NOT spiritually resurrected, as was Christ’s. One doesn’t get resurrected as a spirt.
In Luke 20:27-40 Jesus says: “The children of this age marry and remarry; but those who are worthy to attain to the coming age and to the resurrection of the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. They can no longer die, for they are like angles; and they are the ones who will rise.” When Jesus says “they are like angles” he means in that there is no need for sex, and therefor no need for marriage, because there is no need nor possibility for new life to be created as the world we currently live in will no longer exist.
As for the sign of Jonah let me quote Jonah 2:1-8
“But the Lord sent a large fish, that swallowed Jonah; and he remained in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. From the belly of the fish Jonah said this prayer to the Lord, his God:
I do not see anywhere that it specifically says that Jonah remained alive inside the fish. Let’s say we interpret this literally (we Catholics do not believe the Bible is meant to be read literally) can any man stay alive inside a fish? Is there any oxygen? No, so how can you say that Jonah remained alive inside the fish? It doesn’t matter wether Jonah was alive or dead. What matters is that Jonah was spared by God who of course can do all things.
Now let me ask you a question. Can God do any and everything? Of course if God wills it He can do anything. Muslims believe that. So if God can do all things why do you can that He can not be begotten? Why do you say that He can not have a Son? Why do you say that God can not be human too if He should so desire?
Peace be upon those who seek Guidance and Truth.
I answer your question with a question. Why don’t priests get married?
It is reported that once a Catholic priest asked a muslim the same question you ask. The muslim said, and why don’t you marry?
The priest replied we seek holiness and closeness to our Lord. I’m paraphrasing, something similar to this.
So the muslim replied, so you beget not to be close to you Lord but your Lord had a son?
This is something false and a lie.
You ask if God can do anything and everything why can’t He.
Ask your priests. Holy is God, High is He above those things which you ascribe to Him.
Attribute of Allah: Independent and Besought of All,
Attribute of Allah: Rich, Free of all needs.
And you claim God is Begotten? He begets. With who? Who does He need to beget with to make a living thing when He is the Creator of All things?
This is our Creator. He begets not nor is He begotten this is our Creator. You seek to give God attributes like humans but there is nothing like God.
If you can agree with there is nothing like God. Nothing is like him, then should be able to agree that He definately was not begotten, nor does He beget.
Please know that though I do not believe what you believe. I respect the fact that all people that believe in God and seek to worship Him in the way they believe is correct are doing what is right. I love & worship God I am sure you do too.
There are significant differences between what I believe & you believe. As a Catholic I believe that the Judaic roots of my faith are based on both the written word of God (Scriptures) and tradition. I believe that God created humans, male & female He created them, in His image & likeness. I don’t want to argue this point. I acknowledge that you do not believe this.
I have given Islam serious thought but I have experienced the Presence of my Lord in Holy Communion too strongly to be able to deny my Catholic faith. I have come to the personal conclusion that it does not matter that we have different beliefs. What matters is that we each practice what we believe is the correct way to worship God to the best of our ability.
I don’t think it is appropriate for me to say that what you believe can not possibly be true. As a lowly human I would not be so arrogant as to even imagine that I can understand God. I can only explain to you what I believe as a Catholic & why.
Catholic priests take a vow of celibacy as a sacrifice. During Ramadan you abstain from sexual relations from sunrise to sunset. Priests abstain from sexual relations for the remainder of their lives. They do this as a special sacrifice, a gift to God. This can be considered a gift of great value as both Muslims & Catholics believe that human sexuality is a good and natural part of human existence within the confines of a valid marriage.
It isn’t the absence of prodigy that brings one closer to God. It is the devotion of ones whole existence to God that brings one closer to God. So whether or not a priest marries has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
I believe that humans are made in the Image & likeness of God. I believe that Adam broke his covenant with God by saying no to God. I believe that there is such a thing as original sin. I believe that in answer to that fall from grace God promised to send humanity a Savior. I believe that Satan wouldn’t bend his knew to Jesus & Mary not Adam. I that Jesus is the Only begotten Son of God. That he was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit & born of the Virgin Mary. I believe that Mary was the wife of Saint Joseph and that Saint Joseph provided for her and the child Jesus. I believe that John the baptist was a cousin of Jesus and that he attested to the fact that Jesus was the Son of God. I believe that God commanded His people to observe the Passover feast through Moses and that Jesus for filled that feast with his own body and blood – there by instituting the Sacrifice of the Mass. I believe that during Mass bread & wine are turned into the Body & Blood of our God with the Act of Consecration. I believe that Jesus was crucified, died and was buried. that He descended into hell to give those there access to the Good News. I believe that He rose from the dead and has ascended into heaven and that He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe that marriage is a Sacrament. I believe that there can be no separation of what God has put together in marriage. I believe that it is a grave sin for a man to have more than one wife.
I know that Muslims do not believe what I believe. I do not think that anyone can prove that what I believe is right or wrong any more than they could prove what you believe is right or wrong. We should explain what we believe & why we believe it and we should respect each others beliefs.
I am disturbed with the video presentation above as both parties pictured are attempting to prove that what they believe is right and that what the other believes is wrong. Doesn’t the Holy Quran say – tell them you believe what you believe and I believe what I believe?
Then shouldn’t it be left at that? Why would it be necessary, or even desired, to prove that one way or the other is correct? To us humans it may look that if what you believe is correct then what I believe must be false (or at least major aspects of it). Perhaps there is another possibility, understandable only to God in His Greatness, that we are both right.
In closing I would like to try and attempt to explain to you my concept of the Holy Trinity. Saint Patrick explained it this way. I have clover growing on my lawn. If I pick a clover I am holding one clover. This one clover consists of three parts does it not? That is the Trinity – One Undivided God in Three Persons Blessed Trinity a Triune Godhead. I do not expect you to believe what I believe. I pray for your success in your worship of God.
gr8 resrch bro
needed info. thanks. ma sha Allah
No, mary, God CAN NOT do anything, He can’t do mistakes, He can’t do stupid things and He can’t do things that are impossible because they have absolutely no meaning, like He can’t make the number 1 both odd and even at the same time because it doesn’t mean anything, for 1 is odd which by definition is NOT even. The same goes for the fact that Jesus can’t be both God and man at the same time because to be God is to be IMMORTAL and INFINITE, and to be man is to be MORTAL and FINITE, thus one can’t be both immortal and mortal at the same time, it doesn’t mean anything.
your clover analogy is faulty, like all trinity analogies, since there is nothing in the universe like the trinity. First of all there are cases of four leaflet clovers and even more leaflets, so I guess someone who believes in a Godhead that has four persons can use clover analogy. Moreover, if you remove one leaflet of the 3 leaflets of the clover you no longer have clover, you have leaf with 2 leaflets and a leaf with one leaflet, none of which are fully clovers. However, if you remove Jesus, from the trinity according to christian scholars and leave the Father and Holy Spirit, you still have Jesus being fully God and the Father and Holy Spirit together being fully God. Please don’t use this analogy or the egg analogy or any one because it doesn’t work
Furthermore, there is no such thing as a plurality of persons in the Godhead. We introduce a plurality when we use the word ‘persons’. Anyone who pictures 3 different persons in their minds and then say with their mouths that they are really one cannot help but be confused. They say one thing but are actually thinking another. Anyone with such an understanding of the Godhead are polytheistic in their thinking regardless that they may say that God is one in order to align their verbal confession with the Bible. It is important to begin the Shema with a declaration of the Oneness of God because it is only possible to give the love of all our heart, soul, mind and strength to One. It is not humanly possible to do so for 3 or more. This only leads to confusion. Our God is not the author of confusion. He never changes(Malachi 3:6) . He is still One now as He was One then.
Peace be upon those who seek Truth and Guidance,
As it says in the Qur’an, to you your beliefs and to me my beliefs.
On the Day We shall all be Gathered to our Lord, He will inform us.
Yes, I believe with a certainty that God is One and that the Trinity is infact fabricated.
But that is your belief. I pray you do much more research on the beginnings of the Catholic Church, and compare the words of our Beloved Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and the one whom you call Paul in the Bible.
Understand, as muslims it is not our duty to make Muslims. Only God can guide and God guide whomsoever He wills and He turns astray whomsoever He wills.
I will, however, convey to you the message, that our God is One.
While the clover parable of St.Patrick is interesting, it is au’dhu billah. While you would use it to explain the Holy Trinity, sister, I would rather ask you to explain your understanding of God.
Is your god of the Trinity, the same God who created the Heavens and the Earth in Six Days, and Created the all within it? Is this the same God who created, Adam, man the first time?
If it is so,the same God, who by nature should know the needs and inner workings of man, being His Creator and whom man shall return, how could it seem plausible for Him, the Creator to have a son when he can create man easy?
But as you have said, we’re not here to debate. I am here to deliver you the message of Islam and you , I assume, have delivered me your message and understanding of your Catholic faith.
As I’ve said, I urge you to research such things as the council of Nicaea in 325 a.d., which is a staple event in your Church, and also the comparison of Paul’s words and Jesus’ (pbuh) words.
May God guide you and straighten out your affairs.
Peace be upon those who seek Truth and Guidance
Well said Abdul At-Tawwaab. May Allah (SWT) bless you in every aspect.
I want to say Mary there is witess now that Juses did not deid He is alive see Quran.
I want to give witness that Jesus is G_d, that He did suffer & die for all of our sins, and that He has risen from the dead. I want to witness that he is with us even until the end of time in the Eucharist.
I will only say that if I believed that the Quran was in fact the word of G_d I would be a Muslim but I do not believe that the Quran is the word of G_d. Instead I believe that the Word was made flesh & dwelt among us in the person of Jesus. Jesus is truly G_d & truly man. I believe in one God in three persons, a Blessed Trinity.
I only responded & continue to respond to these postings to say that I have told you the truth whether or not you accept the truth is between you & the Lord not between you & me. Please do not continue to misquote or take out of context the words from Christian Bibles to prove or disprove your religious beliefs.
If the Quran is truly the word of G_d then why do you feel it neccessary to use other peoples scriptures to prove this?
You should follow the advice of your own Prophet & Quran & accept that you believe what you believe & I believe what I believe.
May G_d Bless you on your spiritual journal & bring you peace in this life & the one that follows,
plz If u wish , plz refer to http://www.houseofquran.com
In the of God the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
Oh you who disbelieve
I worship not that which you worship
Nor worship you what I worship
I am not going to worship that which you worship
Nor will you worship what I worship
To you be your way and to me be my way.
What do u say bro..Your religion is your religion and my religion is my religion..
Thanks once again for proving that He is not the last messanger of God,rather he is the Last messanger of Satan.Because the last messanger kicks all the previous revelations.
He is not agreeing with any previous revelation.All are new concepts reg Sin,salvation,paradise etc..
Now iam saying
because your way is to take to Hell..
The Douglas guy went OFF TOPIC!!
You were asked to prove that the crucifixion happened… NOT to talk about differing opinions b/w Muslims… its not Islam v Christianity…
It’s discussing the crucufixion…
Ahmed Deedat was concise, on topic and he explained beautifully…
In Islam there is honor, respect for Juses Christ(pbuh)and make the words sence. Juses came to Isreal tribe to guide them to the way of God, because they misleaded, once again they refused the message by prophet of God Juses the tried to kill him, eleven person at night attacked to his house but God immediately rescued him God sent angle and carried him to the heavens. He did not crucified, died and many other things that thr christian say.
why debate debating religion is basically forcing your fews on someone else. Do you think god would like that we are supposed to make disciple thats what the bibles says not forcing or debating people to see how much they know about there religion. Has the quran been translated to english.
visit for more whyyislam.blogspot.com/ or click why islam name above
Dr Douglas sounds really stupid in a polite tone. lol He’s making statments that the audience is “not going to hear about Islam” at this debat on the “crucifixion of Jesus” LOL He wants to compare religions and that is not what this debate is about, stay on topic “foolish” man (only “foolish” because Davis called himself that). smh Typical Christian minister, dancing around the issue at hand and tapping into a persons emotions! LOL Thanks ALLAH SWT for a brain!
Hey guys please understand that as Jesus warned false prohets would come and he also gave how to test the spirit whether they are from God
Bible says that any body who denies Jesus Sonship and denies that he manifested in flesh is from Satan.
Why is satan decieving you that jesus is not crucified?
Answer is that previously in the whole of the old testament,also in hindu scriptures,God ordered that for remission of sins,blood has to be shed.
And now the Sin is increased to infinity,and nobody is eligible to heaven.thats why Jesus was manifested inflesh,once for all for the remission of sins,he shed the blood and made a way for us to reach God,thru him,anybody if they are believing in jesus,and following his commands will be eligible to stand before God.Jesus defeated death and defeated satan by rising on the third day..
Now Satan deployed islam and cut the way Jesus laid and making everybody ineligible for heaven.
If you dont believe Jesus,then you die of your Sins.remember.
Was the mediator Shikh Siraj Wahaj?
The only objection for me to think about or accept islam is that Quran says that jesus is not crucified.But the whole biblical theme is the remission of Sin and Jesus offered as a sacrifice.This was all prophetically fullfilled in the new testament.In the old testament,it was prophecised the place,name,time and how the Jesus will be born and also several prophecies of jesus until he dies were mentioned and fullfilled .This was said even by the great Historians from greek,jewish and Roman sources.
I went to google,typed “Historical record for christ not crucified”,in the first page itself didnt find any content out of millions of websites on w3c.
So how can we come to Quran and agree it?
Also bible predicted 600 yrs before that
1.Some one would bring a Gospel from angel and that u shud not accept
2.Also gave hints who is the anti-christ.The one who denies Jesus Sonship.
3.Also gave criteria to test the spirit from God.any body who denies jesus manifested in flesh is not from god according to bible.
Even these prophecies came to be true thru islam.
1.Muhmad brought gospel thru angel
2.He denied Jesus Sonship
3.He said jesus was just a man,and that he is not manifested in flesh.
Now what shud i do tell me?which one to believe
Quran came after 600 yrs and says the old scriptures were wrong
Bible before 600 yrs says that in the future you will receive wrong scriptures and you shud not believe.
is the one which predicted earlier that future scriture is wrong is superior or else is the one whcich came later and pointing to old scriptures wrong is superior?
tell me which is right and superior.
I feel prediction is superior and i consider Bible to be superior.
The bible says that there will be a prophet that is like Moses, And jesus isnt like moses. Who esle could it be?
According to deut 18:19,if any prophet prophecies in my name,and if it shall not come to pass,then he is a false prophet.
With respect to this,Muhammad doesnt qualify even as a prophet,as there were 0 prophecies in the Quran(i mean very few).in bible,even a minor prophet,prophesied so many and they came to pass.
Meaning of prophet,is to prophecy.So in the first phase it self he is disqualified.
And also no miracles by him.but jesus did,also he modified the existing law(i mean law of Moses) and gave a new law that who ever believes in him shall have everlasting life.previously they believed only on God the father with following the laws.Now in the new law,they have to believe in Jesus that he will give eternal life.
So Moses gave law,Jesus Too gave a new Law.
Moses did so many miracles,Jesus too did so many
Moses prophesied,Jesus to prophesied.
Moses saved people from bondage,jesus saved from the bondage of sins.
Muhammad only gave new Law,but no proper prophecies,and also no miracles.Also Muhammad did not come to save the people,instead he gave a law and again pointing to old testament style of the bible.
Giving a Law and punishing the people is already over in the old testament times in Moses time.
Now God gave law and also he made a sacrifice to cleans our sins and come closer to God.
the Quran is not a book about the life of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) but a revelation from our Lord. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) taught us how our Lord want us to worship Him, so that when you worship properly you can be saved from the fire of hell.
Quran is beyond prophecies, Quran is a mercy and a wisdom from our Lord for the mankind. When you read it you know it can only be from our Lord.
If you are looking for prophecies and miracles of prophet Muhammad (pbuh), read the hadith you could find in it tons.
Hi there Analyze,
The tad bit of information you provided is a bit incompatible with the information you attempt to assert. The piece you offer as evidence DOES NOT deny that there will not NOT be any more prophets to come, no? In fact, you say that if the person claiming to be a prophet gives prophecies that don’t come to pass then he is a false prophet. This implies the possibility, almost the expectation, that there will definitely be a prophet after Jesus. Not only that, but this prophet will bring with him information about the future. Now, Prophet Muhammed (saw) was given the Quran,which God fills with all sorts of lovely information and prophecies that have either passed, is passing, or will pass. Now, a curious soul only needs to pick up the Quran and witness the miracle for him or herself.
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